On this blog, I welcome dissenting opinions as well as all comments and insights from readers, but I do expect dissenting opinions to be supported by some sort of evidence even if it’s only anecdotal. This is what I always required of my students when they composed argumentative essays and it should be the same in a forum such as this.
This week I’m presenting a comment I received from a reader who responded to last week’s post “Dispelling Myths About Migrantion.”
Wow so much emotional appeal, so little facts.
Being poor and brown does not qualify people for citizenship in any country, especially not the US. Caravanning and causing a huge scene is not how you achieve asylum. These people are not hungry, half of them are fat, they are not fleeing, they are living in a culture of violence which is completely different.
What’s next, should America boat in all 100 million people from the Philippines just because their own failed nation is plagued with violence and low wages? Get fucked.
FINISH THE WALL, DEPORT & BAN ALL ILLEGALS. American citizens (including the legal immigrants) do not want to pay for these people to move in and take up space and jobs especially while the country is already overpopulated (with low wage workers at that).
Democrat policies ruined America for decades and we’re tired of it, no more, the gig is up for “diversity” pushing leftists.
What isn’t clear is whether the writer was seriously expressing a personal opinion or just trying to get a reaction from me. Either way, here goes. Note the commentator’s words are all in brackets.
[Wow so much emotional appeal, so little facts.]
Read on to see the commentator’s unemotional, fact-filled insights. 😉
[Being poor and brown does not qualify people for citizenship in any country, especially not the US. Caravanning and causing a huge scene is not how you achieve asylum.]
I think you got the Fox News version of the story and didn’t bother to look any further. First, let’s get this out of the way. Not all people in Latin America are poor and brown. There are a lot o light skinned folks of Spanish ancestry, and while they tend to be wealthier and control power in Latin American countries, it isn’t at all unusual to run across a light-skinned poor person in this part of the world, so don’t assume 100% of those migrants now waiting south of the Mexican border are ‘brown-skinned’.
While it is the poor who are fleeing their Central American countries by walking for 2,700 miles to the US border, there are established US asylum laws in place–laws that Trump has sought to circumvent. If you don’t like established US law, then as a citizen it’s your right to protest and lobby your congressional representatives for changes. What you don’t have the right to do as an American citizen is to take away the rights of others. And, beware the slippery slope of removing the rights of others, because we can all be at risk if our laws are not respected, regardless of citizenship.
Why are these people traveling in caravans (large groups)? The simple answer to this is two fold: 1) Power in numbers: Common sense tells us that the more voices we add, the louder the cry will be. I’d say these mostly uneducated migrants are simply showing they possess the knowledge and skills needed to make such a journey. I’m not at all sure how well I’d do if I started out walking on a journey of 2,700 miles with very little money in my pockets.
2) Social Media: People all over the world have used social media to organize government protests and all manner of other gatherings. The groups who’ve traveled from Central America and are now in the Tijuana area of Mexico awaiting a US government response used social media to loosely organize themselves into larger groups due to the dangers of traveling alone on migration routes through Mexico. Many Mexicans have helped the recent migrant groups by supplying food and rides along the way, but just like in the USA and most other countries, there are groups in Mexico who don’t mind taking advantage of those who are weak and vulnerable. Again, there’s safety in numbers.
As for the storming of the border, an American friend of mine, who is on the ground in Mexico and has physically followed and worked to provide food for these groups ever since they crossed Mexico’s southern border, said the group that tried to enter the US illegally was indeed very small and not representative of the migrants in general. Check out her excellent blog, Camino Milagro, if you’d like to find out what’s really happening south of the border.
[These people are not hungry, half of them are fat, they are not fleeing, they are living in a culture of violence which is completely different.]
In the same way that not all immigrants have brown skin, not all ‘fat’ people are well-fed and strong. Then there’s the fact that hunger has little to do with how fat someone is. A ‘fat’ person who goes without food for a long period of time will definitely become hungry and eventually malnourished and weak long before they shed the extra pounds. Try asking one of your obese American friends or neighbors for confirmation on this one. Are you advocating withholding food from people based on body size?
Different from what? I doubt a single one of these migrants would disagree with your assessment that many Central Americans live in a culture of violence. The problem here is that you seem to placing responsibility for the creation of this culture of violence on the victims themselves. Do you feel personally responsible for everything your government does? Are you equally responsible for the violence–shootings etc–that takes place in the USA on any given day? If not, then why would you blame these migrants for all the negativity that’s driven them out of their home countries?
Again, I’d suggest you read a variety of sources (especially research carried out by reputable organizations and academics) to learn more about the background of Latin American governments, the drug trade driven by demand from customers in the USA and the negative role American interference under the Reagan Administration played in destabilizing Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua during the 1980s. US foreign policy mistakes of that era along with the lure of getting a piece of the multi-billion dollar drug trade have played a pivotal role in creating the exodus we’ve witnessed from these countries over the past 3 decades.
Changing the conditions in neighboring countries isn’t going to happen until the US Government and it’s citizens wake up and accept their share of the blame for creating such conditions. It’s fantasy to think we can simply decree that poor Colombian farmers stop growing cocoa and all the associated problems will suddenly disappear. The cocaine produced from these leaves travels along various routes through Central America and adds greatly to the violence and insecurity in those countries.
The USA has long preached free market principles to the rest of the world and the drug trade is simply a matter of supply and demand. Eliminate the demand and the supply chain will crumble. The US government seems to operate on the principle that everyone else is to blame for their problems as well as those experienced by Americans. Such an unrealistic attitude doesn’t benefit Americans or those at whom the finger of blame is being pointed.
As a nation and a people, we need to start asking the hard questions about our own behavior and work WITH our neighbors to then resolve issues and disagreements. The US-led War on Drugs has wasted billions of dollars and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Colombia and Central America. Simply making decrees from some lofty position of power doesn’t necessarily change the results on the ground. This war has also separated American families and filled American prisons with non-violent individuals. Check out an analysis here by the libertarian Cato Institute.
[What’s next, should America boat in all 100 million people from the Philippines just because their own failed nation is plagued with violence and low wages? Get fucked.]
I don’t really understand the reference to the Philippines here. It isn’t the first country that comes to mind when I think of a ‘failed nation’, although poverty and violence exist there just as they do in a majority of the world’s countries, including the USA.
Wow, totally unemotional response. 🙂
[FINISH THE WALL, DEPORT & BAN ALL ILLEGALS. American citizens (including the legal immigrants) do not want to pay for these people to move in and take up space and jobs especially while the country is already overpopulated (with low wage workers at that).]
As for Trump’s WALL, do you really think this is going to solve the problem of illegal immigration in the USA?
According to Jeffrey Passel at the Pew Research Center, it’s likely that more than 40 percent of unauthorized immigrants in the US are visa over-stayers. Most of these people entered the USA through a major airport, so building a border wall would have not prevented their entry into the country. So, besides the estimated $20 billion in US taxpayer funds that could be applied to solving real American problems, the wall will not do what Trump or his supporters say it will do. Imagine using those funds to improve crumbling infrastructure, beefing up law enforcement, making our educational system a top priority, fully supporting our veterans who return from war zones or providing mental health care to broken individuals before they become mass shooters. Take your pick, there are SO many needs that are going unfunded and could use an infusion of $20 billion.
I remember traveling over land between Jordan on my way into Israel and I gasped when I saw the border wall that country built through the occupied West Bank. I remember wondering to myself at the time if the money spent constructing such a monstrosity couldn’t have been put to a better use. But, building walls is all about shutting out the world’s problems rather than using our human intelligence and communication skills to resolve issues in a way that would benefit us all. Why have we allowed selfishness and division to dominate our natural human tendencies to peacefully work together and resolve disputes?
As for the USA being ‘overpopulated’, have you ever driven across your vast country–you know, from sea to shining sea? There’s a LOT of open space available, plus US farmers have always been pretty good at creating a surplus of food that’s mostly exported.
Now to jobs. Sorry, but you are definitely showing your ignorance by saying that immigrants are taking low-wage jobs away from the average American. We’re talking about people who do the jobs that the vast majority of white Americans would refuse. When I’m in the USA, I see most Latinos doing manual labor–things like heavy construction, landscaping, farm labor and performing the lowliest of tasks in restaurants like busing tables and washing dishes. Last summer when I was in Seattle, my friends pointed out a number of long-established restaurants that had been forced to close because they couldn’t find enough employees willing to the perform the necessary tasks. So clearly, the American economy is still creating more jobs than can be filled, especially these low-wage jobs you note.
Don’t blame low wages on immigrants. Economics is a complicated topic, especially when discussing a large and diversified economy such as the USA’s. The Pew Research Center names the prime suspects for the growth in the percentage of low wage jobs while higher wage jobs have been disappearing, and guess what, they don’t mention immigrants once in their summary. One thing that is clear is that America’s economic policies over the past 4 decades have had the effect of benefiting the rich far more than the poor or middle classes.
This is a problem that can only be resolved by changing government economic policies, not by eliminating immigration. If you look around the world, you’ll see that other countries such as Japan have actually harmed their economic growth by not allowing more immigrants to enter their country and workforce.
[Democrat policies ruined America for decades and we’re tired of it, no more, the gig is up for “diversity” pushing leftists.]
It isn’t clear which policies the commentator is referring to here and I don’t want to make assumptions. Democrats haven’t controlled power in the USA for ‘decades’. It’s been a back and forth game with Democratic administrations and then Republican administrations, as has been true with changing majorities in both parties controlling congress and the senate at various times. Quite honestly, I’m sick to death of all this Democrats and Republicans talk.
From my point of view, there’s enough fault to go around. We’re all to blame and let’s stop looking for someone else to blame. Immigrants are such an easy target since they’re often poor, disenfranchised and vulnerable.
“The gig is up”…what does that mean? You can call me a leftist or any other name you choose, but the facts remain the same. As a white, male, protestant American, I’m telling you that we are FAR outnumbered by people of darker skin on this planet. We’ve subjugated these people for centuries and that ‘gig’ is the one that’s up.
Diversity is the future and we can either embrace it and build coalitions that help us all survive (and even thrive), or we can build walls and sit behind them with our loaded guns, all the while acting like scared little children who are afraid someone is going to come and take away our toys. I choose to face reality and work for the betterment of all humankind.
How about you?